Posts Tagged ‘WG14’

C Standard meeting, April 2016

April 15th, 2016 No comments

I was at the ISO C Standard’s meeting in London this week; it has been five years since I last attended a WG14 meeting, when it was last in London (my jet setting standard’s meeting days are long gone). Around 20 people attended, of which slightly more than half I knew from previous meetings. Given how unchanging the membership was for so long, this is a large change and its great to see so many new people being interested in C (including and open source vendor, RedHat). There is also a change of convener since my last meeting; David Keaton is a long standing member and as meeting chair he kept things motoring along.

The format of the each day, after the first morning, was to spend an hour at the start of each morning and afternoon working on Defect Reports, break and then work through documents in the pre-meeting mailing.

The topic of note on Monday afternoon was a proposal to add support for the type short float in C2X. There is a lot of hardware support for 16 bit floating-point operations (e.g., SSE instructions) and C is behind the curve on this. There was consensus to move forward on this proposal.

Tuesday was taken up by discussing proposals under the general heading of clarifying the C memory object model; various papers by a formal methods group at Cambridge University that I have written about before. I had misunderstood the intent behind the papers; the Prof running the project wanted to fix the programming world by changing the C Standard (I thought he just wanted clarification of what the standard said). While fixing the programming world is a commendable goal, messy reality and very strong interests for not changing existing behavior are likely to maintain the status quo. Talking to the post grad working on the project, they seem to be doing all the right things, so we could be seeing some very interesting results (a major threat to success is the sheer volume of material that has to be covered).

Wednesday covered the charter for revising C, various proposals for new features in C2X (mostly lots of thread based stuff), conversion of the document to LaTeX (currently in nroff/groff; there was no sentiment to follow C++ and put the draft on a public Github repo). When C89 became an ANSI standard, before C90 became an ISO standard, Rex Jaeschke handed out a floppy of the C89 nroff sources to those attending one of the meetings (I forget which). Unless you happen to have an AT&T 3b2 and know which options to give nroff, you are very unlikely to be able to generate something that looks like C89.

Thursday covered another C2X proposal, closures using syntax and semantics supported by C on Apple (Borland got there first by supporting the __closure qualifier on pointers). In the afternoon we had a presentation of the latest C binding to the guidance on avoiding vulnerabilities in programming languages work going on in WG23. WG23 wanted WG14 to endorse this document and take ownership of it; lots of push back on this and all they got was a request to WG14 members to send any suggested improvements to WG23.

The next WG14 meeting is during October in Pittsburgh and I have no idea when the next meeting will be held in the UK (unlikely to be within three years).

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February 2012 news in the programming language standard’s world

February 15th, 2012 2 comments

Yesterday I was at the British Standards Institute for a meeting of the programming languages committee. Some highlights and commentary:

  • The first Technical Corrigendum (bug fixes, 47 of them) for Fortran 2008 was approved.
  • The Lisp Standard working group was shutdown, through long standing lack of people interested in taking part; this happened at the last SC22 meeting, the UK does not have such sole authority.
  • WG14 (C Standard) has requested permission to start a new work item to create a new annex to the standard containing a Secure Coding Standard. Isn’t this the area of expertise of WG23 (Language vulnerabilities)? Well, yes; but when the US Department of Homeland Security is throwing money at cyber security increasing the number of standards’ groups working on the topic creates more billable hours for consultants.
  • WG21 (C++ Standard) had 73 people at their five day meeting last week (ok, it was in Hawaii). Having just published a 1,300+ page Standard which no compiler yet comes close to implementing they are going full steam ahead creating new features for a revised standard they aim to publish in 2017. Does the “Hear about the upcoming features in C++” blogging/speaker circuit/consulting gravy train have that much life left in it? We will see.

The BSI building has new lifts (elevators in the US). To recap, lifts used to work by pressing a button to indicate a desire to change floors, a lift would arrive, once inside one or more people needed press buttons specifying destination floor(s). Now the destination floor has to be specified in advance, a lift arrives and by the time you have figured out there are no buttons to press on the inside of the lift the doors open at the desired floor. What programming language most closely mimics this new behavior?

Mimicking most languages of the last twenty years the ground floor is zero (I could not find any way to enter a G). This rules out a few languages, such as Fortran and R.

A lift might be thought of as a function that can be called to change floors. The floor has to be specified in advance and cannot be changed once in the lift, partial specialization of functions and also the lambda calculus springs to mind.

In a language I just invented:

// The lift specified a maximum of 8 people
lift = function(p_1, p_2="", p_3="", p_4="", p_5="", p_6="", p_7="", p_8="") {...}
// Meeting was on the fifth floor
first_passenger_5th_floor = function lift(5);
second_passenger_4th_floor = function first_passenger_fifth_floor(4);

the body of the function second_passenger_4th_floor is a copy of the body of lift with all the instances of p_1 and p_2 replaced by the 5 and 4 respectively.

Few languages have this kind of functionality. The one that most obviously springs to mind is Lisp (partial specialization of function templates in C++ does not count because they are templates that are still in need of an instantiation). So the ghost of the Lisp working group lives on at BSI in their lifts.

A change of guard in the C standard’s world?

March 17th, 2011 2 comments

I have just gotten back from the latest ISO C meeting (known as WG14 in the language standard’s world) which finished a whole day ahead of schedule; always a good sign that things are under control. Many of the 18 people present in London were also present when the group last met in London four years ago and if memory serves this same subset of people were also attending meetings 20 years ago when I traveled around the world as UK head of delegation (these days my enthusiasm to attend does not extend to leaving the country).

The current convenor, John Benito, is stepping down after 15 years and I suspect that many other active members will be stepping back from involvement once the current work on revising C99 is published as the new C Standard (hopefully early next year meaning it will probably be known as C12).

From the very beginning the active UK participants in WG14 have held one important point of view that has consistently been at odds with a view held by the majority of US participants; we in the UK have believed that it should be possible to deduce the requirements contained in the C Standard without reference to any deliberations of WG14, while many US participants have actively argued against what they see as over specification. I think one of the problems with trying to change US minds has been that the opinion leaders have been involved for so long and know the issues so well they cannot see how anybody could possible interpret wording in the standard in anything other than the ‘obvious’ way.

An example of the desire to not over specify is provided by a defect report I submitted 18 years ago, in particular question 19; what does:

#define f(a) a*g
#define g(a) f(a)

expand to? There are two possibilities and WG14 came to the conclusion that both were valid macro expansions, making the behavior unspecified. However, when it came to a vote the consensus came down on the side of saying nothing about this case in the normative body of the standard, the only visible evidence for this behavior being a bulleted item added to the annex containing the list of unspecified behaviors.

A new member of WG14 (he has only been involved for a few years) spotted this bulleted item that had no corresponding text in the main body of the standard, tracked down the defect report that generated it and submitted a new defect report asking for wording to be added. At the meeting today the straw poll of those present was in favor of adding an appropriate example to C12 {I will link to the appropriate paper once it appears on the public WG14 site}. A minor victory on the road to a full and complete specification.

It will be interesting to see what impact a standing down of the old guard, after the publication of C12, has C2X (the revision of C that is likely to be published around 10 years from now).

For those of you still scratching their head, the two possibilities are: