Posts Tagged ‘SC22’

Will programming languages now have to follow ISO fast-track rules?

February 4th, 2013 No comments

A while back I wrote about how updated versions of ECMAscript (i.e., the Standard for Javascript) had twice been fast tracked to replace an existing ISO Standard, however the ISO rules require that once a document becomes one of its standards all future work be done using the ISO process (i.e., you only supposed to get the one original fast track and then you have to get at least half a dozen countries to say they will actively participate in ongoing work). Thirteen years after I asked why it was being allowed to happen (as I recall I only raised the issue because I thought I had misunderstood the rules, not because I had a burning desire to enforce them) the issue has suddenly sprung to life (we are talking Standard’s world ‘sudden’ here), with a question being raised at the last SC22 meeting and a more detailed one being prepared by BSI for the next meeting (they occur once per year).

The Elephant in the room here is ISO/IEC 29500:2008, not a programming language but Microsoft’s Office Open XML; there was quite a bit of fuss when this was fast tracked.

If the ISO rules on one-time only use of the fast track process was limited to programming languages I imagine the bureaucrats in Geneva would probably never get to hear about it (SC22 would probably conclude that there was not enough interest in the various documents outside of the submitting country to form an active ISO working group; so leave well alone).

ISO sells over 19,000 standards and has better things to do than spend time on the goings on in an unfashionable part of the galaxy, unless, that is, it has the potential to generate lots of fuss that undermines credibility.

Will Microsoft try to fast track an updated version of ISO 29500? I don’t even know if they are updating it. The possibility that ISO 29500 might be updated and submitted for fast track will make it hard for SC22 to agree to any future fast-track updates to existing ISO Standards it is responsible for.

The following is a list of documents that have been fast tracked to become an ISO Standard:

ECMA-262 (1st edn) = ISO 16262:1998
ECMA-262 (3rd edn) = ISO 16262:1999
ECMA-262 (5th edn) = ISO 16262:2011

ECMA-334 (2nd edn) = ISO 23270:2003
ECMA-334 (4th edn) = ISO 23270:2006

ECMA-335 (2nd edn) = ISO 23271:2003
ECMA-335 (6th edn) = ISO 23271:2012

ECMA standards fast-tracked to ISO and not yet revised:
ECMA-149 PCTE part 1 = ISO 13719-1:1998
ECMA-158 PCTE part 2 = ISO 13719-2:1998
ECMA-162 PCTE part 3 = ISO 13719-3:1998
ECMA-230 PCTE IDL binding = ISO 13719-4:1998
ECMA-367 EIFFEL = ISO 25436:2006
ECMA-372 C++/CLI -> DIS 26926; failed DIS ballot and project cancelled

Replaced rather than revised under JTC1 rules:
CHILL (from CCITT): ISO standards 9496:1989, 9496:1995, 9496:1998, 9496:2003
MUMPS/M (from Mass Gen Hospital/ANSI): ISO standards 11756:1992, 11756:1999

Non-ECMA documents fast-tracked through ISO and not yet revised:
FORTH (from FORTH Inc): ISO 15145:1997
JEFF (from J consortium): ISO 20970:2002
Ruby (from Japanese Industrial Standards Committee): ISO/IEC 30170:2012

Does the UK need the PL/1 Standard?

September 25th, 2011 No comments

Like everything else language standards are born and eventually die. IST/5, the UK programming language committee, is considering whether the British Standard for PL/1 should be withdrawn (there are two standards, ISO 6160:1979 which has been reconfirmed multiple times since 1979, most recently in 2008, and a standardized subset ISO 6522:1992, also last confirmed in 2008).

A language standard is born through the efforts of a group of enthusiastic people. A language standard dies because there is no enthusiast (a group of one is often sufficient) to sing its praises (or at least be willing to be a name on a list that is willing to say, every five years, that the existing document should be reconfirmed).

It is 20 years since IST/5 last had a member responsible for PL/1, but who is to say that nobody in the UK is interested in maintaining the PL/1 standard? Unlike many other programming language ISO Standards there was never an ISO SC22 committee responsible for PL/1. All of the work was done by members of the US committee responsible for programming language PL 22 (up until a few years ago this was ANSI committee X3). A UK person could have paid his dues and been involved in the US based work; I don’t have access to a list of committee meeting attendees and so cannot say for sure that there was no UK involvement.

A member of IST/5, David Muxworthy, has been trying to find somebody in the UK with an interest in maintaining the PL/1 standard. A post to the newsgroup comp.lang.pl1 eventually drew a response from a PL/1 developer who said he would not be affected if the British Standard was withdrawn.

GNU compiler development is often a useful source of information. In this case the PL/1 web page is dated 2007.

In 2008 John Klensin, the ISO PL/1 project editor, wrote: “No activities or requests for additions or clarifications during the last year or, indeed, the last decade. Both ISO 6160 and the underlying US national document, ANS X3.53-1976 (now ANSI/INCITS-53/1976), have been reaffirmed multiple times. The US Standard has been stabilized and the corresponding technical activity was eliminated earlier this year”.

It looks like the British Standard for PL/1 is not going to live past the date of its next formal review in 2013. Thirty four years would then be the time span, from publication of last standard containing new material to formal withdrawal of all standards, to outlive. I wonder if any current member of either of the C or C++ committees will live to see this happen to their work?

Ruby becoming an ISO Standard

August 12th, 2011 No comments

The Ruby language is going through the process of becoming an ISO Standard (it has been assigned the document number ISO/IEC 30170).

There are two ways of creating an ISO Standard, a document that has been accepted by another standards’ body can be fast tracked to be accepted as-is by ISO or a committee can be set up to write the document. In the case of Ruby a standard was created under the auspices of JISC (Japanese Industrial Standards Committee) and this has now been submitted to ISO for fast tracking.

The fast track process involves balloting the 18 P-members of SC22 (the ISO committee responsible for programming languages), asking for a YES/NO/ABSTAIN vote on the submitted document becoming an ISO Standard. NO votes have to be accompanied by a list of things that need to be addressed for the vote to change to YES.

In most cases the fast tracking of a document goes through unnoticed (Microsoft’s Office Open XML being a recent high profile exception). The more conscientious P-members attempt to locate national experts who can provide worthwhile advice on the country’s response, while the others usually vote YES out of politeness.

Once an ISO Standard is published future revisions are supposed to be created using the ISO process (i.e., a committee attended by interested parties from P-member countries proposes changes, discusses and when necessary votes on them). When the C# ECMA Standard was fast tracked through ISO in 2005 Microsoft did not start working with an ISO committee but fast tracked a revised C# ECMA Standard through ISO; the UK spotted this behavior and flagged it. We will have to wait and see where work on any future revisions takes place.

Why would any group want to make the effort to create an ISO Standard? The Ruby language designers reasons appear to be “improve the compatibility between different Ruby implementations” (experience shows that compatibility is driven by customer demand not ISO Standards) and government procurement in Japan (skip to last comment).

Prior to the formal standards work the Rubyspec project aimed to create an executable specification. As far as I can see this is akin to some of the tools I wrote about a few months ago.

IST/5, the committee at British Standards responsible for language standards is looking for UK people (people in other countries have to contact their national standards’ body) interested in getting involved with the Ruby ISO Standard’s work. I am a member of IST/5 and if you email me I will pass your contact details along to the chairman.